A storyline decision that needs to be made

[Maverick]

I believe we each follow a faith or people for different reasons. When you look at Monarchy today, versus Monarchy 10 years ago (and how many years you want to make that in game years, hundreds, thousands), it should be clear that most of the characters should not be driven by the same motivations.

At first it was as if the gods could be reached, their reality was unquestioned. Faith in those three as gods has been shattered over time. But their mortal reincarnations may hold sway over certain guilds, cities, people. Furthermore its likely that people would have allegiances that had nothing to do with the three. At this point in history you could have a Foret priest on the side of Angelique or a family that was once devout to Leto now allied with Barnabas.

Perhaps there should be more as to why you must be allied with one of the three for protection.

[Kaz]

Sikil,

I like some of your ideas, although I'd point out that the best storyline fillers are ones where we dont have to add fake history to make them work.

One thing I will say is that Leto did not have anything to do with the spilling of Darden's bowl. When cornered by the combined power of Angelique, Barnabas and Leto, and the knowledge that Foret and Isonia were already destroyed, the smashing of the bowl was Darden's final act. I dont see any reason to take that away from him.

Also, we've got to remember that the Empire is not ancient but quite recent. There was never supreme godless empire roleplayed at Evernight, and our storyline basically follows the war between the 6 gods, and Maxim's, Valid's and Guilds' obliteration. If they are mortal, then the death of the new gods has to be pretty recent. The Older houses therefore, need to precede the Empire itself.

Angelique, Barnabas and Leto need to start generating worshippers, in a real storyline context if they have any hope of not dying a mortal. Barnabas' position is going to be hardest to reconcile into someone who could theoretically follow oleana's footsteps, why the hell did Dustin make him a young noble of an older house.

We also dont want to assign blame for critical but subtle actions or betrayals, to one mortal god or another. Storyline has traditionally left those sorts of questions to the players own interpretation, and I've always liked that element.

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Mav,

Nothing to say other than I agree. You've made some good points.

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Let's hope a few more people do like Sikil and post some sort of storyline idea based around the concepts we need to establish, and the ooc comments being made.

[Kaz]

Thinking about it. When Darden smashed the bowl of dispair, it's contents must have had an effect on Tonan too.

No gods, feelings of sadness, a return towards racial segregation. That's the world the Empire must have been created to 'fix'

[Sikil]

Leto, the half-elf, had been banished from the Empire. It was only partially his fault that he had been. When the Bowl of Darden was smashed, instead of trying to use his powers to fight it, this once mighty God used it to throw further chaos into the world. How was he supposed to know what was to happen?

I didn't say Leto smashed it, just that it had been smashed.

Also, it was just my drunken rp rumblings...already had posted in four of my other rps and still had that itch If it gives you some ideas, then I'm fine with that. If not, still fine

[Kaz]

ah.. I read it as if he helped Darden smash the bowl

[Suvantar]

Angelique, Barnabas and Leto need to start generating worshippers, in a real storyline context if they have any hope of not dying a mortal. Barnabas' position is going to be hardest to reconcile into someone who could theoretically follow oleana's footsteps, why the hell did Dustin make him a young noble of an older house.

I am not sure if that's necessarily true or not.

The first time Oleana ever appeared, she was a commoner who was supposed to clean up the mess after the Monarchy world version of Suvantar ritually sacrificed the Neverwinter version of Suvantar to avoid having to pay the price for selling his soul to a demon. The whole thing was more or less a bait and switch that this guy was trying to pull off and actually had pulled off several times to that point. Unfortunately for him, this time he pulled the wrong copy of himself across the void. He pulled across a trained assassin, who proceeded to kill everyone in the room except Oleana because she didn't look like she really had much of anything to do with what was going on.

At that point, 'Suvantar' made a deal with her. In return for helping pass himself off as himself, he made her his chamberlain. And because 'Suvantar' really wasn't much good at the ruling the realm part of being a noble, and in fact wasn't much good at anything other than pissing off the established hierarchy because he was actually from a world that had a multitude of gods, not just three, so he never really got the whole 'endless religious warfare' thing, Oleana more or less became the de facto day-to-day ruler of the small barony that had previously been ruled by 'Suvantar.'

What the new 'Suvantar' actually was good at, however, was military campaigns. So the small barony eventually became a much larger realm, hence Oleana in turn became a very good administrator of a large Barnabian realm in short order and she was far more intensely religious than Suvantar ever was. That was why when Suvantar was taken by the Amontican sect of the Barnabian church and tortured because of his many heresies, Barnabas himself turned to Oleana to preserve his people during the subsequent Angelican/Leto purges of Key.

The point is that even though Oleana's origins were as a commoner, she wore many hats during her lifetime - chambermaid, chamberlain, savior, ruler in her own right, Gypsy Queen - so there is really nothing in her histories that would necessarily preclude the mortal Barnabas from walking a similarly winding path toward godhood during his mortal life. There are a couple of different theories about what eventually made her a goddess. I wrote that she was unique among mortals in that Barnabas actually granted her a small portion of his own divinity that allowed her hide her people from the Angelicans and Letites. The old 'D&D' explanation for becoming a demi-god is that the character eventually attracts enough followers that he/she ascends on his/her own. Obviously, no matter what route you eventually decide to take, Oleana's condition was not as unique as I intended it to be, but one of the reasons I wrote it the way I did was to create a narrative way to prevent every Tom, Dick, and Harry in the world who happened to have a big army from making a case for demi-godhood.

Presumably, there are no current gods that would grant him the spark of godhood that I wrote that the original Barnabas granted Oleana when he gave her the Reii, but that doesn't mean that he could not achieve it in some other fashion.

What you are looking for, it seems, is what it is that these three mortals - Angelique, Barnabas, Leto - actually have in common with the mortal Oleana that no one else has, which made her capable of ascending, but, say, prevented someone like Dysh, who at various times ruled 9/10ths of the known world, from doing so.

[Maverick]

And what would arguably separate Angelique, Leto and Barnabas is their previous godhood.

Even as a fallen god, they would still hold considerably sway or influence. Even taking Oleana into consideration, most people would believe that a fallen god would have a better chance at returning to their glory than say a powerful leader who never was a god.

If there was some sort of path, its likely that the 3 reincarnations would definitely bring up the fact that they have a way of regaining their godliness and therefore if you are with them now, you will be rewarded later.

And I agree that Barnabas as younger isnt necessarily hard to reconcile.

For example, Barnabas was able to become the leader of a powerful house of lords because that house of lords derived from descendants of (insert Barnie guild here) and thus when Barnabas became mortal they appointed him as their leader.

[Kaz]

Amusingly enough I cut part of the text i'd typed following the Barnabas comment.

It's harder to reconcile from a kingdom game play point of view more that a roleplay view.

I'd hedged, commenting that at least by doing so, he left us the Empire as an entity seperate from the gods.


Suv,

Thanks for a bit of background into how the Oleana situation came about. You're dead right with your final paragraph.

I've always stuggled with the whole 3 gods side of things too, my guilds only followed a faith cos I had to pick one.

I dont personally identify with the current Gods/mortals in the same way as I did with the New Gods. But they are what we've got.


Mav,

The only issue i see hard to reconsile about using their previous Godhood on its own, is that they've been in the void a while. Very very few characters could possibly still be alive that remember the Gods preceeding Foret, Isonia and Darden.

[Suvantar]

I've always stuggled with the whole 3 gods side of things too, my guilds only followed a faith cos I had to pick one.

Well, the main reason that Suvantar struggled with it was because the character originated in Neverwinter Nights, which was essentially the Forgotten Realms. In the FR, there are a hundred and a half gods and even though there are ones like Bane and Lloth that view for supremacy, the religious wars are only a small facet of the game that any individual gm could choose to accentuate or ignore as he or she wished. The difference here is that it is virtually impossible to ignore the religious war because it is the entire narrative basis for the game. Hence, Suvantar choosing to try to ignore the gods had immediate and character-altering consequences for him, because he made the mistake of assuming that temporal power, (nobility), was more important than religious power, (the church), which was largely the case in a place like Neverwinter.

Obviously, the fact that he is actually from Neverwinter must be excised from Oleana's history for licensing reasons, but when I wrote the story what I was originally trying to write was partially Suvantar's story, (the survival of a guy who was essentially a jerkass, yet still managed to achieve this position of symbolic importance among the followers of Barnabas - ie, 'The Heretic'), and the rise of a character who had actual, real religious power in the world - Oleana, who was not a jerkass and viewed everything through the twofold prism of preserving her people and upholding her faith in Barnabas because she honestly believed Barnabas should occupy the Seat of Heaven.

It was not until she actually achieved ascension that she realized that he did not deserve to sit there and that, in fact, none of the three deserved to sit there because each of them was willing to sacrifice his or her followers en masse for no other reason than to try to preven his or her siblings from doing so. Hence there was no love in any of them for his or her chosen, which to Oleana should have been the very nature of divinity.

Remember that Oleana was my reflection on the nature of godhood, so when I wrote the story of Oleana's ascension, I had no other outcome in mind than Oleana was going to take her people to a new world entirely and leave the world of constant warfare behind.

As far as the races of the three current gods are concerned, I am not sure if their races matter because I am not sure if the typical stereotypes of the various races we've read about in fantasy literature apply here. Obviously, if Angelique is a tyrant, then it might make sense that instead of an elf, she is actually a goblin, because goblins have always been written as seeking absolute rule. However, goblins and goblinoid races have always also been written as servitor races or chaotic races, so perhaps not.

Monarchy has always struck me as a fairly race inclusive world and that the races themselves don't tend to delineate themselves along lines of worship. I would be wary of making Angelique an 'elf,' simply because it would be very easy for the goddess of order to quickly become the goddess of the elves.

[Kaz]

Suv,

My Guilds and roleplay threads were based around a section in a document linked along with the old maxim storyline

Our two moons, Soma and Numi circle our planet once a day. Suma, the larger and blue tinted one always ahead in the night sky by about three fingers. Numi, behaving like a little brother trying not to be noticed to often by its bigger older sister, lingers behind wallowing in its sickly gray tint. Some say our magickal power comes from the moons, but this has not been fully verified and is a source of high contention amongst the most learned of scholars. Yet another topic for another day, we will continue with the original topic.

Our light, the bringer of dawn and father of shadows, Intop rises to the southeast between the peaks of Himna and Portan for those of us blessed to still reside in Tonan, which remains relatively unscathed. It is with humble habit that I force myself to wake before dawn and begin the meditation of old, while waiting for Intop to rise and cast away the last remaining tentacles of darkness.

The God colours were grey, purple and orange so I linked them to the 'true' sources of power, and made a guild who worshipped Intop.

Not that that really matters in the context of this thread, as its a previous set of gods

[Kaz]

One thing thats also clear with the gods as mortals. If roleplay was to come back, the old rules about not roleplaying the gods will have to go, and be replaced with some method of getting permission to post as or about the gods.

[Kaz]

Presumably, there are no current gods that would grant him the spark of godhood that I wrote that the original Barnabas granted Oleana when he gave her the Reii, but that doesn't mean that he could not achieve it in some other fashion.

Can you define exactly what you mean by 'gave her the Reii'. I've seen the word, but dont know it's actually translated meaning.

Is there an artifact that Barnabas gave Oleana when she became a God, or does giving her the Reii mean something else??

[Suvantar]

Presumably, there are no current gods that would grant him the spark of godhood that I wrote that the original Barnabas granted Oleana when he gave her the Reii, but that doesn't mean that he could not achieve it in some other fashion.

Can you define exactly what you mean by 'gave her the Reii'. I've seen the word, but dont know it's actually translated meaning.

Is there an artifact that Barnabas gave Oleana when she became a God, or does giving her the Reii mean something else??

When the Amontican sect of the Church of Barnabas took Suvantar to place him on trial for Heresy, they also stripped the city of Duckburg of all of her riches and left the acting government, which was basically Oleana, with no way to pay the city's defenders. Many of them remained at their posts for a time, but as the Trial of the Heretic lingered on, more and more of the watchmen and soldiers in the army were forced to abandon their posts to find some other way to feed their families.

To make the long story short, by the time the Angelicans and the Letites attacked, Duckburg was essentially defenseless before them and they razed the city. Prior to this, Duckburg's military had never been defeated in battle. In essence, the Church of Barnabas had abandoned followers of Barnabas to their fates and enriched themselves in the process, using Suvantar's 'heresy' as the rationale. When the city was lost and being burnt to the ground, Oleana went to the Cathedral D'Amontica in the center of Duckburg, which was the only structure that the Angelicans and Letites did not target, (implying that the Amonticans had some sort of tacit agreement with the invaders), and killed the Amontican bishop. She prayed to Barnabas for aid. At that point, she had the vision that would guide her for the rest of her life.

Barnabas granted her the power to conceal his followers from those who would kill them and commanded her not to allow them to disappear from the earth. This was the 'Romany Reii' or the Gypsy Cloak. Oleana gathered the few remaining survivors in the city and began a long journey westward. At villages and townships and razed cities along her path, she gathered more and more to her side until she walked at the head of a massive collection of refugees that should have been easy for any organized military force to find and track, but they never were. Eventually, Oleana established the city of Duckport and within 8 months of the end of the Angelican/Letite massacres and purges of Key, the first reports of Romany attacks on the western provinces of the realm reached the Assembly of Rathenam.

The Reii was nothing tangible. It was basically the divine ability to conceal her people from those she did not want to see them in order to fulfill the divine mandate her God laid upon her.

[Topheh]

(Long time no post!)

Before I comment on other things, going back to the first post, I've always viewed Barnabas as being the most 'Sidhe' of the Mortal Kings, at least in terms of how the Sidhe were often portrayed in the RP as old, calculating SOBs whose only faults were perhaps that they had lost sight of what it meant to be 'wrong'.

That said, I like the direction things are going here. I particularly like the flavor of having Darden's bowl-smashing lead to the rise of the Empire and formed the... incubator... for the rise of the current Three.

I think that the thing that separates these three *is* their prior godhood... that they have some latent spark within them, that, although dim, flickering and in danger of being extinguished forever if one of them dies, is still enough to not only cause them to become natural leaders that people inexplicably fight and die for, but gives them the potential... somehow... of regaining their fully divine status.

Also, if RP here *does* try to make a return, I will be there!

[Kaz]

Quick summary including my votes.

Angelique: Goblin (or other in-game goblin sub-race)
Barnabas: Human
Leto: Human/Elven Half-blood

Nothing has been decided yet.

Angelique: 4 suggestions of Elven, 2 of Goblin, 1 of Dwarven and 1 of Human
Barnabas: 5 suggestions of Human, 1 of Vampire and 1 of Sidhe
Leto: 2 suggestions of Sidhe, 1 of Goblin, Drow, Human and half blood Human/Elven

[Blu]

Barnabas - human.

Angelique - elf.

Leto - half-human/half-elf.

Although the struggle of Monarchy/Evernight has not been about race, we can introduce an element of it into the current strife in Tonan. Just a sliver of of it. The fight now seems more about "political" power than religious. Islan, representing the old world power of the elves, against the human-led Empire, representing the new power. While the Empire could be a coalition of the races, there is usually always some dominant group. Like the Empire, Islan does not have to be just a monolithic society of Elves (this would limit those who follow Angelique), the Elves could be the dominant power there. But we would need to give a reason why other races would follow the Elves of Islan. Maybe a distrust of the Empire or a preference for the old ways or a belief that Islan justice is harsh and swift whereas the system of the Empire has become corrupt.

Or....Islan is a holdout against the emerging Empire. One of the few kingdoms but the most vocal against the Empire's culmination of power. And in a twist of irony, becomes a rallying point for the opposing kingdoms, and as a result, a rival that now exercises the same power that it despises in the Empire.

And the followers of Leto don't have allegiance to either powers. They are the wild card in this world.

[4saken]

Ive read around and was wondering if you were still thinking of the dark lady? With maybe the tenth race?

Ive played this game on and off since 2000 i think.
Always I wanted a more evil God Such as her if that was what you intended.
I chose leto because him being the god of chaos back in the day and the more free mind of the three as mortals.

Just wondering....

BTW undead would be a good race to have helped her escape when the three returned as mortals.

[Kaz]

I do still plan to introduce the Dark Lady and tenth race, but not without roleplay picking up again first and me getting a chance to recode enough to actually create the planned roleplay game.

My idea is to create a 2 pronged game, where you can only create a kingdom in one version at a time. One half will be a normal style guilded game set on tonan with the 3 gods and normal selection of races, ability to restart etc. The other will me a last standing game starting in the void with a single dark god, and only the new race as a selectable option. Both games will require roleplay in thye same way maxim and mopri did. The games will eventually merge, putting a large evil shapeshifter or two into the guilded game, watching it smash things up, and then hope that the guilded players can take it down. However, this game is dependant on a recode that is not particularly close to being a reality, and the return of roleplay.

The roleplay that died off has already introduced a creature from the void into Tonan, which can shape shift into the form of anything it kills. So far it's killed one of the droben subspecies and that's it. It cant die or be banishied back to the void, but can be freely roleplayed about. Others wont be joining it for now.

The mortal kings need a possibility of being able to get enough worshippers to ascend to the heavens, or introducing a dark goddess and shapeshifting void race will obliterate them.

[Blu]

I can't wait for the Dark Lady. I was going to use her as a catalyst for the return to the mortal world of an adversarial character I created.

How have others been rp'ing the history of their characters? I mean in terms of the transition between the gods and the worlds, etc. For example, are you treating the fall of the gods, the rise of the new gods (and their fall), and the re-incarnation of the original 3 as taking place in the lifetime of your characters? Or has generations passed during this event? Personally, I've been rp'ing as if it's been happening during the lifetime of my character (although I will admit that I haven't returned to the game and have posted sporadically--in fact I think I'm more than a year behind in my own rp) and in a shorter period than it appears to some.

Also is it now inappropriate to rp as if we come from kingdoms with their own kings/queens, royal lines, etc., in light of the Empire?

[Suvantar]

How have others been rp'ing the history of their characters? I mean in terms of the transition between the gods and the worlds, etc. For example, are you treating the fall of the gods, the rise of the new gods (and their fall), and the re-incarnation of the original 3 as taking place in the lifetime of your characters? Or has generations passed during this event?

I have always assumed each 2 month game encompassed at least a 'generation,' which can last anywhere from 10-20 years. Otherwise, I think, you sort of risk running into the 'comic book timeline' problem. What I mean by that is that once upon a time, Chris Claremont was asked on the X-Men letters page how much time had passed between the issue when he started writing the book and the present of the comic at that time. He said, "About 2 years."

Well, when you looked through all of the storylines that he'd written and that everyone else had written, etc, the sheer number of events made his statement just ludicrous. Basically, you would have had a major, life altering event in the lives of the X-Men occurring every single day, sometimes twice a day.

The same problem happens if you trying to condense all of Monarchy/Canon/Monarchy history down to a 25-50 year period. Literally, just too much happens for it to be plausible.

At this point, with the rise and fall of gods and goddesses and the rise and fall of empires and so forth, you have to be talking about an epic that spans nearly a thousand years or two of this world's history.