Learning From The Past

[Kaz]

This completely negates their intentions of publicizing the community and primarily serves to keep this group very single-minded, bitter, and unwelcoming

I am going to repost this, but in the current context rather than a 'past' context.

Look at what you are typing please. Would you act like this on the Tribal Wars message boards, or a message boards for any other game for that matter?

All we are asking is that you open your minds and at least TRY to make a new start.

[Immigrant]

Its an interesting social experiment & maybe, just maybe it'll even work, proving that people (especially some of the worst offenders) can actually change their wicked ways (jury's still out tho given to some monumentally despicable things pulled by past mgt & community "leaders" - and you know who you are...)



edit: In retrospect, should start by taking my own advice & let bygones be bygones altogether though and no dwell on the bad & the ugly from over 2 or 3+ years ago at a site that is, for all intents and purposes, dead (and deservedly so - its both a surprise & a shame that its survived this long).

Otherwise, what's the point in hangin around like I've done for what - well over a decade (which still amazes fwiw - with so many rl friends & gf's and even a fiance that have come & gone and given how much has happened in the intervening yrs, and yet still drawn to this group of misfits for some reason...=)

Its the people & guess still want to believe that (most) people are basically good. The people from all over that were met through the 'diplomacy' of guilds (& countless hundreds if not thousands of hrs writing RP that long ago simply vanished as if it was never written w/ multiple board wipes & crashes at the old site) is what let this 'community' get its claws in me before (that & sheer boredom in school labs). Some of you freaks ;p even inspired me to consider meeting otherwise total strangers from the net for the 1st time, and there was some good times shared in chats with some of you here (and even in other games on the web with some of you). But at times this community almost seems like an abusive lover: you share some laughs and fun times 'bonding', but it has a dark side and is capable of cruelly and brutally lashing out. You keep coming back though, because you want to only see the good & keep telling yourself they'll change so you put up with abuse... And they're even good, for a while; but their dark side just comes out again, only with a vengeance the next time because they know you'll put up with it.

In the spirit of turning over a new leaf though I'll trust that that isn't the case here at this essentially new site, and that people here from the 'old days' have actually changed, giving this *new* community a final try by approaching it in the spirit it's supposed to represent: some fun as a nice little time killer.

In the event the site goes south though where there's even a hint of admin & 'community leaders' rehash tired elitism and revert back to pulling some of the filthy stunts like they grew accustomed to at that cesspool of an old site, then of course will finally wash my hands of this "community" once & for good, wiping the proverbial dust off as I go never looking back - making a point of breaking the 12+ yr habit of caring about what happens with this group of people.

[Koi]

Oh, something else I wanted to address was that whole "right wing mentality" thing.

I'll preface this with the following:

I'm a 28 year old male registered Republican. I am not religious person per se, but I do believe in God.

However, I fully agree that the politics and political views on Tempers Ball were very hostile, unfriendly, and inspired no debate what so ever, just a bunch of people ganging up and bullying on others who had a differing opinion. In the past, everyone was allowed to speak their mind under that whole "Free Speach" thing. I think that fostered alot of bad feelings, and it is evident in those reviews.

That is why I want to draft some board rules governing how those threads should be handled. But thats another thread in Comments already, I probably should bump that back up as the forums are getting more active.

I post on other games that have a very hostel Left wing Mentality. But that game also has it's own personal political forum and has a disclaimer that reads enters at your own risk. I enter all the time with my right wing mentality and don't get butt hurt like so many here either now or from the past. But setting up a forum for politics may be a idea for the boards here or even make politics a mute point on the boards. If you talk about politics either from the left/center/ right. Your thread or post gets deleted. I hope I made myself clear? I have never been one for words. But let's be honest. No one is going to change there views when it comes to politics and both sides actually do alot to piss each other off. So to see any politics wiped off the board would be cool to me.

As for what killed the game for me was when people became to hardcore. I mean watching the ranks to see what guilds were raising or dropping in NW had to be the one scouting you. So they attacked with only checking the ranks was just to much. I mean I loved the game... I still love the game. But I don't have time to watch the scrolls 24/7.

[Teanos]

Koi - Maybe a Political/Debate/Rant forum would be a good idea. I can kind of see both sides.

Side A.) People don't want to post here because Comments is full of debates, politics, etc. We are not a huge community so its more obvious when you click the link. Maybe Comments will be just general discussion type things.

Side B.) We are not a large commuinty and creating a bunch of forums puts a handful of posts in a handful of forums that makes people click all over the place.

I can go either way on this, although I am leaning towards maybe a debate forum with a disclaimer like you said.

I'll see what other people think.

As for the hardcore game players - I wouldn't think that is going to change in the initial Monarchy : Massacre release. However Kaz, Gili and I have always wanted to do more dynamic rankings, and create a whole different mentality for scum players and scout reports. One of the things I've always wanted to do was make having a ton of thieves mean something on the ranks - in the sense that maybe your NW will stay lower until you are scouted, or maybe you don't even show up on the ranks until you are scouted.

Something like that would make watching NW, ANW and guild ranks obsolete.

[Gerien]

fwiw I use the "view new posts" option all the time, so it makes no difference how many forums there are, just how many new threads/posts.

[Koi]

Koi - Maybe a Political/Debate/Rant forum would be a good idea. I can kind of see both sides.

Side A.) People don't want to post here because Comments is full of debates, politics, etc. We are not a huge community so its more obvious when you click the link. Maybe Comments will be just general discussion type things.

Side B.) We are not a large commuinty and creating a bunch of forums puts a handful of posts in a handful of forums that makes people click all over the place.

I can go either way on this, although I am leaning towards maybe a debate forum with a disclaimer like you said.

I'll see what other people think.

Sounds good to me.

I'm on many car forums. But there is one I'm on that is called Gadsm. It's a small forum with a crazy amount of sub forums for it's size. So I know what what you are talking about as far as side B goes. But if you want to see how people are able to handle it there. Just google search Gadsm and take a look. Ignore my mod bashing there if you do check it out.

[Teanos]

I don't know if this is really a Tribunal thread anymore, or just a discussion on the past, and potential things we can do to help step away from some of the mistakes we made in the past.

Thoughts?

[Hector]

I agree not necessarily "tribunal" anymore.

I have been thinking about suggesting an offshoot forum of Comments that is only for "politics". They forum would be more regulated and it would let Comments be something different.

[Venus]

i think its a good idea
it might be difficult keeping it just politics though and keeping politics out of comments at first.

[Teanos]

Thats why we have such steller moderators.
Even if they are just alts of Kaz, Gili and I.

[Teanos]

I created the forum, the mods will move threads over as they find them. (or I will later, whichever happens first).
Lets see how that route goes and go from there.

Any objections to moving this to Comments or are there still subjects we might need to make a ruling on?

[Kaz]

I personally think we should leave this thread here.

It'll get lost in the pages of comments

[Immigrant]

think Gerien is right & I like the changes you're making (and love the looks of things around here btw) - more forums lets ppl gravitate to whatever they like (entering at their own risk for the more hardcore forums) and if they want to find something they will.

And think once a groove is found and the moderation then stays consistent, helping misdirected posts end up where they belong, that should cut down on conflict and the bad blood & help keep it fun

[Thomas]

A Postive thought.

I started playing the game back monarchy. Followed the game to Canon. Then I stopped playing. I never really posted much, but I did watch the board.

10 years later I'm still watching the boards. I still don't post often. Will I play the new game? Maybe. Will I be watching the forums and posting. Yes.

Why?

Years are a long time to invest and just disappear. All the old people I used to hang with are gone. It's still been a hell of a ride. I'll stay on for a while longer.

[Nagash]

Good to hear, mate.

We've lost touch with too many of the old guard. There are a lot of people on my "if only I had their contact info" list.

[bigSparky]

As far as separating out political discussions into the debates and rants forum, I think it is generally a great idea. I find it interesting however, that the thread that seems to have brought the whole issue to the forefront is still in regular comments. Re: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=104. Gerien posted a feel good story, Owly agreed with it( or said yeah, that's great, however you want to look at it), and then I said that I didn't believe it. I have no real reason to not believe it, I just don't. Unfortunately, it seemed to go downhill from there. I think the difficulty will be in determining exactly which threads need to be separated out. Comments is right where that thread belongs, no matter the direction it takes. I can envision many other subjects that belong in comments that could inspire debate and political discussion, yet by subject matter really need to remain in comments so as to maximize viewing.

What we, as a community, really need to do is consider the manner in which we speak to each other. The thing is, fresh start or no fresh start, we ARE still the same community. Some of the personality conflicts/animosities are bound to carry over. One of the things that attracted me to this community so long ago, was the freedom and leeway given on the boards. I don't think we should lose that aspect, but we do need to prevent the toxicity of the past.

[Nagash]

What exactly do you suggest then, mate?

[Kaz]

I moved that thread, it wasn't the thread that brought this all to a head. When we moved the threads it was a couple of posts relating to a positive story of crime.

Too be honest I had not personally been following the thread, so didn't see it change.

[bigSparky]

The reason I figured the thread I mentioned was the one that "broke the camels' back" so to speak, was this response from Gerien.

Fuck it. I quit. New site or not there is no point in posting anything other than a conservative, gun-toting, right wing perspective here.

It actually didn't degenerate as much as others have, and I do feel Geriens' response( to Atla I believe) was a bit reactionary, possibly spurred on by the interaction in a couple of other threads. So I guess my question would be, do we start a thread in Comments and move it if it falls apart, or should he have known that he would elicit some of the responses it received and started it in the Debate/Rant forum instead? (Yes I know it didn't exist at that time, just using the thread as illustration).


Nagash- are you asking what I suggest then? If so, I say this: There are two basic ways I could choose to respond. One would be along the lines of "what the fuck are you talking about what would I suggest you stupid ugly...", well, you get the point. Or I can go with "In the second half of my initial post I said "What we, as a community, really need to do is consider the manner in which we speak to each other", as well as in my very first line said I thought this was a generally great idea".

I like my second approach much better. Some folks here choose the former as a matter of course. I think for the most part, I have used approach #2 in my time here, but as with most of us, at times I have failed. Separate forum or not( moot point tho that that may be), I think we all need to be more respectful of each other than we have in the past. There is an old saying - familiarity breeds contempt. I think as a community we have long suffered that phenomenon. We all think we "know" each other, and that somehow that gives us liberty to do as we please. No amount of site moving or board revamping or game revamping can change that. That is our responsibility to the game, the boards, and our administrators.

[Kaz]

The title of Gerien's thread initially led me to it, assuming It was for the other forum, but then when I read it I could not really imagine it going anywhere other than a spam thread.

I think we'll move threads that end up 'needing' to be moved, there has been one forum for a while, it'll take a little while to get used to having two.