Health Care Bill: What Will Happen?

[Reylan Talonspyre]

So, the Democrats, representing a small portion of this country, plan to pass a horrendous health care bill today. It is filled with so much pork barrel programs and bribery, done behind closed doors, I would think the President would shoot it down.

He was the one to say he wanted transparency, up-or-down votes, etc.

Lies. Not the Bush type lies of "No comment." or "Well, Dick said so." Bald-faced lies. Complete and total lies. Hell, even the liberal media is starting to report Obama is done after 4 years, the next Jimmy Carter. I called that the day after his inauguration.

Here is the problem, there are some great points to this bill, but they are outnumbered by the 10,000 bad points to this bill. We need certain reforms and quickly. Why not just vote on those the Rep/Dems agree on?

The answer is simple: regulation.

If Congress funds something, they can regulate it. If they fund health care, they can then, theoretically regulate it with a new bureaucracy. A majority of Americans don't want this bill, they are going to destroy the Democratic Party in passing it, so why?



Now, what do you think is going to happen? We have been ignored by the media. We have been stonewalled in Congress. Every blue blooded tyrant is chanting, "We are here to help the weak." as they step on the Constitution, because that is the "right thing" to do.

These people should be arrested for treason.

What will the public's response be today when so many Americans are angry and afraid of this bill and frustrated over the fact they could not get representatives to listen or the media to cover their side of the story.

Los Angeles Times calls the Republicans clowns, using Barney Frank's terms, because they cheered on the bystanders in the Congress building who shouted out "Kill the Bill" while security had to pull them out of there. This is not normal behavior over a domestic bill.

If it was a war bill or something similar, maybe.

I worry about riots. I worry about tax rebellions. I worry about violence in general.

My liberal friends, no matter what your media, President, Congress and close circle of friends tell you, America does not want this bill and may become ... retarded.

Anyone else have thoughts besides that I am an idiot?

[Gerien]

Anyone else have thoughts besides that I am an idiot?

No

[Grunt]

Elections have consequences

[Nato]

For your sake, I sure hope WAAAAAAHmbulances are included in the bill.

[Maverick]

USA! USA!

I dont worry about violence, the sun will still rise in the east and set in the west.

I do wonder what will happen when the world doesnt end like some are predicting.

[Reylan Talonspyre]

It won't end, we will just go bankrupt and cut aid to senior citizens.

Yay Congress!

[Maverick]

Youre right, weve never run a deficit before!

Deficit spending for the win!

[Sturm-II]

What was the vote?

[Sturm-II]

What will the public's response be today when so many Americans are angry and afraid of this bill and frustrated over the fact they could not get representatives to listen or the media to cover their side of the story.

Vote for the proper amendments to said bill, but for goodness sake get the ball rolling.

[Gerien]

What was the vote?

We won.

and to all the conservatives who cow that Obama didn't give us everything we asked for - fuck you. We had to fight you every step of the way to get anything at all to make this country better.

[Reylan Talonspyre]

We will repeal it in a year or so. Don't worry, we won't let you libs take us down a path that will destroy America.

So, in turn, go fuck yourself.

Oh wait, you already did.

[Nether]

So why is it bad?

I havn't followed this at all.

[MoP]

Here is the problem, there are some great points to this bill, but they are outnumbered by the 10,000 bad points to this bill.

Would you mind sharing some of those bad points? Apart from the expenses, as it's rather logical that healthcare for every citizen isn't a cheap thing.

[Nagash]

Here is the problem, there are some great points to this bill, but they are outnumbered by the 10,000 bad points to this bill.

Would you mind sharing some of those bad points? Apart from the expenses, as it's rather logical that healthcare for every citizen isn't a cheap thing.

1. It's something Obama deems important;
2. He wants people to have the right to die uninsured, bankrupt;
3. "They have the obligation to treat you in the hospitals!", I don't give a fuck who pays the bills;

Anyone else have thoughts besides that I am an idiot?

No

Seconded.

Elections have consequences

Indeed. If you don't like that, get rid of democracy.

It won't end, we will just go bankrupt and cut aid to senior citizens.

Yay Congress!

Stop buying military equipment you don't need then. I work in the aerospace business, and it is a public secret here that the lobby in the USA hauls in billions of dollars which shouldn't have been spent. Look at what the Israeli do with the F16, that's fucking fantastic. Instead it's one big blind old boys network.

Yay Congress indeed.
And even more importantly: yay lobby.



USA, congratulations. You are on your way to become an actual society (i.e. people care for each other rather than just looking out for themselves).

[Nagash]

Interesting read on this matter: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8579322.stm

"This only worked well for the Republican Party if it failed to pass," David Axelrod, one of Mr Obama's closest political advisers, told the New York Times after Sunday's vote.

"They wanted to run against a caricature of it rather than the real bill. Now let them tell a child with a pre-existing condition: 'We don't think you should be covered.'"

I found that quote quite interesting. As those opposing this bill usually also oppose the abortion of children with pre-existing conditions, how can that position be defended?


Also:

According to the Congressional Budget Office, the healthcare bill will cut the federal deficit by $138bn (£92bn) over 10 years.

The non-partisan body said last week that the legislation would cost about $940bn (£626bn) over the same period.

One of both obviously sucks at math. Did anyone think to hire an impartial party to calculate it (e.g. Europeans, Asians, Australians)?

[bvaughan]

What a load of horseshit, i don't need anyone, that includes the government, telling me that i HAVE to purchase health insurance or face a $750 fine. I can't afford health insurance as it is and now i have to pay a fine because i cant afford coverage to begin with? Fuck Obama

[Nagash]

I think it will turn out not to be that bad. As everyone needs insurance now, the prices will drop. Government will monitor that the profits are modest en because of the advantage of scale, the costs are lowered.

It will be affordable therewith, and you will no longer have to worry about extremely high bills in the case you get sick.

[Grunt]

Personally I find it ironic that for my entire life the liberals have been arguing that it is a womans body and no one has a right to tell them what to do
Now the liberal argument is that your body is actually public property and the government has an obligation to tell you what to do with it

[Nagash]

That logic is flawed, mate.


It is not about telling you what to do with your body, it tells you to insure that body so you can therewith secure treatment if you need it.


Consider this: those opposing this bill in the thread in the Debates & Rants forum pointed out that no one can be refused treatment in the USA. Therefore, if one is not ensured, deep in debts, and demands treatment at a hospital, they can't refuse lest they're sued for millions (which in itself is odd, but that's beside the point).
The hospital knows there is no way to get the money back from the one they treated, so they will have to either get it from their paying customers by increasing their prices, or by turning to the government if there is a provision for that. In the former case the paying patient pays the bill, in the latter case the taxpayer.
In both cases others bleed for some git who doesn't want health insurance, but who does want to get treated. Where's the fairness in that?

Now if everyone is insured, that problem is solved. That will either allow the hospitals to lower their rates, or save the taxpayer some money. Less lawsuits will be required, for if everyone is insured, everyone can be treated.

But above all, it's simply the proper thing to do. No one is left behind, everyone can get treated and everyone pays a similar amount of money for that. Health is a social good in the sense that some (mostly common/public) goods can simply not be divided individually on a fair basis. I think the right to healthcare is as fundamental as the right to clean air, maintaining proper roads, a police force, army, etc. Guess Obama agrees with me (yay!).
Things which cannot be properly managed individually, so you need a government to do it for you. If you mistrust your government, then tackle that problem and not a bill which is a good start for public healthcare.

[MoP]

Less lawsuits will be required

There. Who will keep all the lawyers at work then?!?