Why is England on fire?

[Maverick]

As an American I dont get a lot of information concerning the riots in England. The information I have read seems to suggest that this is all because of 1 guy being unlawfully killed? I cant imagine that is the whole story as in the land of guns (America) wrongful deaths happen all the time by police, etc.

[Kaz]

That's a damn good question.

I almost posted a thread yesturday actually asking how it was being reported in the USA.

As far as I understand it, there was what was intended to be a peaceful protest in Tottenham relating to the shooting of Mark Duggan by SO19 a couple of days earlier.

People then started rioting and looting in tottenham. News reports the day after, say it wasn't locals, and that kind of makes sense, as all that really happened was the loss and damage to local business and transport facilities.

It started in the guise of an anti metropolitan police thing. Now it seems to be pretty much teenagers looting cos they think they can get away with it.

Here's a timeline of events from the BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14436499

[Lady Maven]

I think that was a catalyst, but the under lying root problem seems to be crushing unemployment and benefits being cut. People are desperate and angry and it boiled over. Nothing excuses it of course, but I have a feeling world wide we will see more of this. Look at what is happening in Somalia.

[Kaz]

I think that was a catalyst, but the under lying root problem seems to be crushing unemployment and benefits being cut. People are desperate and angry and it boiled over. Nothing excuses it of course, but I have a feeling world wide we will see more of this. Look at what is happening in Somalia.

You're right .... but

It's not the unemployed, or those losing benefit causing mayhem for a political end.

It's their children.

[Lady Maven]

Isn't that sadly how it usually is? Ya know Lillim and I were IM'ing as this was all going down. he lives on 21rst floor in... Birmingham? Does that sound right? And he could see the riots right beneath his windows. Cars being tipped over, tons of sirens. Well.. rioters may be a bit far, but for sure looters and other mayhem.

[Kaz]

Birmingham is one of the places hit. Seems to be mostly poorer multi-enthic communities.

Nobody is going to say this. But the fact the news has recently been all about the west supporting the arab spring, and the fact their teachers recently went on strike for a day over pensions, probably reinforced some of the 'can get away with it' attitude.

[Lady Maven]

What does "Arab spring" mean? Arab teachers went on strike?

[Lady Maven]

Birmingham.. must be something about that name.. we had our own Birmingham (Alabama) riots after Alabama banned the NAACP. One would think in this day and age RACE would no longer be an issue.

[Kaz]

I dont think it's about race, other than the fact the poorer communities in the UK are stereotypically more multi-cultural

The arab spring is what the news calls the collected uprisings in the middle east.

[Lady Maven]

Oh lord... please tell me they did not call it that after Springtime for Hitler"..

It is the same here, multicultural usually = bad neighborhood. Well.. In California it did. I moved to Nevada and it was a HUGE culture shock. Not a lot of multiculturalism here. Whites and Mexicans and.. well, that about sums it up. We did have a black family move into our apartments. The other neighbors are WIGGING OUT! lol. But that is about as diverse as we get. Though if the whole illegal immigration thing keeps getting out of hand and the media keeps fanning the flames of hatred towards this group I imagine we will soon have our fair share of riots.

[Grunt]

If those law abiding shop owners were allowed to own weapons and protect themselves there would be a very different outcome
You can not deny a person the right of self defense
These riots show the madness of the anti gun argument
I guarantee Atla would of shown a very different response

England has taken away even the threat of a deadly response
this is the predictable result

[Maverick]

Aw come on now Grunt, guns are not a good or bad thing, they are just a tool to be used by good or bad people.

To make this point abundantly clear, in 1992 there were riots in LA. California allows gun ownership.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots

The riots, beginning in the evening after the verdicts, peaked in intensity over the next two days, but ultimately continued for several days. A curfew and deployment of the National Guard began to control the situation; eventually U.S. Army soldiers and United States Marines were ordered to the city to quell disorder as well.

Fifty-three people died during the riots[23] with as many as 2,000 people injured. Estimates of the material losses vary between about $800 million and $1 billion. Approximately 3,600 fires were set, destroying 1,100 buildings, with fire calls coming once every minute at some points. Widespread looting also occurred. Stores owned by Korean and other Asian immigrants were widely targeted,[24] although stores owned by Caucasians and African Americans were targeted by rioters as well.

How would there have been a different outcome?

If anything the LA riots show that gun ownership plays no role in controlling a riot.

[Gili]

This isn't anything to do with the shooting, even the family have spoken out against it.

Its just people being opportunist assholes basically. There is a lot of "scum" out, and they just took the opportunity to be dickheads and start looting and trashing.

This is mainly my experience of growing up on council estates filled with a lot of scum, where crime is a way of life for most. IMO, Society has been too soft at every level for to long. Tougher sentences, less ease of living on benefits for entire life, some how poke parents into kicking their kids ass when they do wrong.

People are always on the polices back, but would have loved to see them crack some heads.

[Grunt]

Self determination personal responsibility and a respect for the law

[Topheh]

Oh lord... please tell me they did not call it that after Springtime for Hitler"..

Nope, just because it happened in the spring

[Lady Maven]

Good, because that would be wrong so very VERY wrong.

Funny, but wrong.

[Immigrant]

At least from this side of the channel over in the NL and with the pictures of thugs firing weapons at police or whom ever, 1st: it's a miracle there weren't more fatalities, and 2nd: it's looking more and more like the seeds of a mini-revolt almost... and these polar extremes rearing their ugly heads recently is disturbing, to say the least