A Discussion on Humans

[Endless]

Right, then. The first to be discusses, and since its such a broad, broad topic by itself, we may as well begin here. I will try to set out the format for this as it will appear in the finished headings, organised and as well thought out as possible.

Species: Human

Rarity: Extremely Common.

Inhabits: Found virtually everywhere.

Physical Characteristics: Humans tend to be between 4 feet and 6 feet in height, and weight varies by lifestyle and station. On the grand scale of things, they are not particularly strong nor weak, either physically or magically, though in terms of magic, human mages are average at best, few reaching the power or skill that the Elder Races can achieve. Anything else you need to know about humans, look at one another and describe what you see

Longevity: Tends towards 60-100 years in age; wielders of magic may live longer but not indefinately, not without becoming something else altogether.

Society: Humanity tends towards every known form of society and governing body. By nature, most humans are neutral - they are not predisposed to being evil or good, though individual characteristics do play heavily into the mindset of many. The most common form of government is dictatorial or monarch-based, but is far from the only accepted form practiced among its peoples.

On the whole, humans are an undefeatabl;e lot. While they are not an Elder race, they have been around for a long time, and endured quite a great deal. The indominitable human spirit ensures the survival and progression of humans as a species in the face of several other races that see them as inferiors, or want them eradicated. The harder they are pressed, quite often, the harder they fight back.

Their history is filled with bloody wars fraught with betrayal and sorrow, glory and victory and defeat. Some of the greatest empires ever created were led and run by humans, though since the fall of the gods long ago there has not been another great epic to tell beyond mere survival. The only existing human empire at current is The Empire, the fief of Lord Barnabas - a seed of divinity, fighting for the throne of heaven.

Humans are not, by and large, a solitary people. Gathering in great cities and nations, they have built kingdoms and empires that spanned for centuries.

It can be said that they despise some of the other races in existence within the world - in particular, Vampires, Goblins, and Droben. The reasoning for the first two are quite simple - who likes blood sucking parasites, and goblins are as repugnant as they are violent. Droben are equally portrayed for their violence. The elves, sidhe are considered elder races, and thus irritate humans with their high-spoken prating of humanities inferiority despite the fact that most of the eloders are fading and failing (droben could be considered elder as well, since they predate humanity even if few know of it, even among the elders).

Culture Widely varied, may change in the span of a few miles between two different settlements.

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If you can thyink of any other category to add, feel free to tack it on to the end. THIS race is too damn common for anything to be very specific, sadly, but there really shouldn't be any damn need for anyone to be told what a human is anyway

[Kaz]

I think these threads might be better started as bullet points or lists, rather than finished looking descriptions. That way it will make it easier for people to have a say.

Two things I feel need to be addressed;

First is regarding the Empire, it's not a `Human` Empire so to speak, and Barnabas is described - at the current time at least - as a Noble of the Empire, not the Emperor. The Empire would have been created by nobles of all the races, and should have a ruling council of sorts that is multi-racial. Istan would have been created by other 'nobles' who followed Angelique, thinking they had been 'short changed' in some way or another.

Also, for the most part, 'despise other races' is not really fair, there have been a few 'race-only' alliances, but for the most part Tonan is pretty accepting of the other races. The issues have always been religious rather than racial.

The following two parts should be cut

The only existing human empire at current is The Empire, the fief of Lord Barnabas - a seed of divinity, fighting for the throne of heaven.

It can be said that they despise some of the other races in existence within the world - in particular, Vampires, Goblins, and Droben. The reasoning for the first two are quite simple - who likes blood sucking parasites, and goblins are as repugnant as they are violent. Droben are equally portrayed for their violence. The elves, sidhe are considered elder races, and thus irritate humans with their high-spoken prating of humanities inferiority despite the fact that most of the eloders are fading and failing (droben could be considered elder as well, since they predate humanity even if few know of it, even among the elders).

[Kaz]

Alternative versions of the first post are welcome (even encouraged). A final draft will try to include as many ideas as possible from as many sources as possible.

Also, needing to be discussed in this thread are the troop types. With Human, not much really needs to be said, as the troop types are generally self explanatory. We do, however, need to establish context for the alliance between human knights, and the dragons some of them ride.

Footsoldiers
Pikemen
Knights
Dragons
Thieves

[Sikil]

For the knights that ride the dragons, I think it would be interesting to take the approach used in Drakengard.

This concept in the Drakengard series is called "pact pricing." In the process of forging such a pact, humans are branded with a mark called a "pact emblem," which appears on a part of their body associated with the price they pay - They either lose use of a physical attribute (Voice, Sight, etc.), or can lose 'intangible' attributes, such as one's joy, or ability to age. However, the bonds that tie a human with the magical creature he/she made the pact with in life, also binds them both in death as long as the creature allows it so.

But this opens up the question of why a dragon would bond with a human in the first place. Perhaps it allows the dragon to exist in the world if the dragons are from another plane of existence. If this approach is taken, it would be interesting rp for the ceremony where a dragon is called and a pact is made. Also, it would explain how they hide their dragons... they merely send them back to their plane of existence until needed again.

I think it's important to keep it away from 'normal' ways of having a dragon rider, such as raising them eggs and such. It would be much cooler if the dragons themselves had a reason they wanted a rider and also give them a personality other then them simply being glorified horses.

[Kaz]

My opinion would be that I'm not sure about the dragons living on another plane of existence and needing a human bond to live in Tonan. But the premiss of it being a mutual agreement of sorts, rather than the standard egg hatching one, is cool.

[Sikil]

The main reason I even threw out the concept of them living on another plane was because I was thinking that there should be a reason why such a mighty creature like a dragon would allow a human to bond with it.

[Topheh]

I like the idea of it being mutual, which does mean there needs to be something in it for the dragon... and I don't think 'curiousity' is going to cut it.

Well, I guess, part of it comes down to the level of the pact. Is it dragon and rider coming to an agreement, or is it dragon and kingdom coming to an agreement? If the latter, payment in gold, baubles and princesses would be a simple solution, while something like 'providing gourmet chefs to create delicious morsels because dragons are foodies' would be... more amusing.

If the former, we could work off of that 'pact pricing' idea. Perhaps dragons are... collectors of very strange things, like 'joy' or 'left hands' and they are willing to serve as mounts for people... who will contribute to their collection.

[Kaz]

From the point of view of artwork, and miniatures I was thinking that dragons 'for the most part' should be a bit smaller sort of like the comparative differences between the dragon-like creatures and the riders in avatar. Admittedly the aliens in avatar were a lot bigger than humans, but I like the ratio of dragon to rider. The ratio also makes metal dragon miniatures more feasible.

I can't remember who it was, but I recall I player that used to roleplay a dragon. They roleplayed that they could shape-shift, and spent much if the time in a bipedal humanoid form. So that means that Dragons can shape-shift into other forms.

Dragons (or at least elder dragons) could be argued to be one of, if not the most powerful beings (other than the gods) on Tonan. They can fly, shape-shift, beath fire, use powerful magic etc. To gradually shrink them down to the nice ratio for models, as well as the sort of subservient nature them being a human troop type suggests, makes them ... less.

I've been having a think and have come up with an idea that stems back to pre-elder gods (although initially the root of the curse would be not known about (at least by the masses).

How about, after taking sides against Adrastria the Elder Dragons were cursed. No longer able to mate in Dragon form, forcing them, over time to mate with humans, elves etc, and gradually diminishing them. There is no huge link between Dragons and Humans (enabling other races to have dragons), other than the fact that Humans exist in larger numbers and have the strongest breeding rate, instinct etc.

If a Female dragon (shapeshifted into a different racial form) lies with a male of that race, she gives birth to a (lesser) dragon. If a male dragon (shapeshifted into a different racial form) lies with a female of that race, she gives birth to a child of her race, with dragon blood. If a female dragon lies with a dragon-blood, you end up with a superior dragon offspring to the female lying with a non dragon-blood member of the race. Obviously if a shape-shifted dragon lay with another shape-shifted dragon you'd end up with a pure dragon, but perhaps part of the curse (or maybe just limitations of shape-shifted biology) could make that less likely?

With dragons mating for life, the Human dragon-knights would be the mates of the dragons they ride, and in order to keep the dragon-line as strong as possible, they would (for the most part) be of dragon-blood.

What do you think?

[Sikil]

Personally the only problem I see is that you may force characters to either rp their significant other or find someone to do that for them. Also, when they're off at war, who's watching the little hatchlings?

[Kaz]

Sikil,

While I 'can' see scenarios where people might not like the idea (hence asking for opinions rather than saying 'this is how it'll be) I don't really see problems in either of those scenarios. Except of course for people who roleplay that Dragons are just thick subservient horses and who's characters are all men with vague references to their women who stay at home.

It's a lot like the standard lack of racism seen in roleplay meaning Tonan is pretty racially tollerant. It's not as if Tonan has a particularly patriarchal society. Women are not excluded from being warriors or generals, in fact, it is pretty much the opposite is some senses, with the most war-like gods/prophets/mortals generally being women.

The 'who stays at home to look after the kids' question is just as valid for any other situation. It's not unique to this suggestion about an idea for the relationship between dragon and dragon knights.

Looking at the other part of the 'problem', the Dragons are not thick subservient horses. If you're roleplaying a dragon rider, you should really be roleplaying your dragon too anyway.

[Sikil]

What I was trying to get across and apparently failed at was that if both of the mates are out on the battlefield, it would make the dragon numbers drop even more if the female (be it the dragon or human) dies before giving birth or the male doesn't deliver the... erm... seed since dragons mate for life.

I do agree though that the riders should be roleplaying their dragons, or vice-versa if the character is the dragon.

Don't get me wrong, I like your idea.

Could it be that not always the rider and dragon are mated?

[Kaz]

The dragons don't 'have' to mate for life, it's just a stereotype which I assumed. It doesn't really make that much difference either way. Even if they do mate for life, there is no reason why a dragon could not take a new mate 'after' the human dies (other than stereotypes from other fantasy worlds). There is also nothing stopping the human dragon rider from also having a human mate, if that's what the player wanted to roleplay. It would be a bit of a wierd three-way though lol.

If the dragons are mating with other dragons and the female died before laying her eggs that would be no different a situation. As a dragon is a non-subservient sentient being, then if it chose to not go out on the battlefield until it had laid it's eggs, then it wouldn't go out on the battlefield until it had laid it's eggs. If a male warrior and female warrior got together, the female would need to take a break to give birth, but there would be nothing stopping her returning to war afterwards and leaving the baby in the care of someone else. Same would be true for dragons. With some sort of creche system, the young dragons and dragon-blood could even grow up together and create bonds.

I can see what you're saying. But I still don't really see how the scenario is any different from any other pregnancy roleplay. In the end, for people that chose to roleplay pregnancy (which is pretty rare), then it's going to involve complications, whatever races are involved.

[Jokingjoe]

What about if it's more of a symbiotic relationship? Not to the same level as avatar, but whereas the dragons, seeing the lower races multiply so fast, feared they would soon have their lands and hatcheries taken from them in endless wars which they could not win due to sheer numbers. Wherefore, the dragons met with the nobility of the humans, the faster growing race, and thereupon made an agreement that the sons and daughters of nobility would bond with the hatchling dragons to grow and train with as equals for mutual defense. This created a relationship whereas the humans gained a great ally in time of war and access to flying which before had been dominated by the elves. The dragons were ensured their lands and hatcheries would not be overrun lest all of humanity were overrun and the gained much political power in the human lands, as few humans blessed with a dragon-companion would allow harm to come to them.