[Tribunal Complete] Well Crafted Spam vs Thread-Jacking

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How should we deal with spam and thread-jacking?

All spam should be banned
0
No votes
Spam is ok, but thread Jacking should never be tolerated
0
No votes
Spam should be allowed in all instances, [NoSpam] tag should be used
1
17%
Moderators should use own judgement, and split thread-jacking into its own topic
5
83%
Other option, see post.
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 6

[Tribunal Complete] Well Crafted Spam vs Thread-Jacking

Postby Kaz » Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:17 pm

Ok, thought it was time to break out the tribunal system.

Spam.

When is it welcome, when is it not welcome.

How should it be moderated?

Feel free to discuss the topic, I will add a poll a bit later once there is something to decide.

Final Votes wrote:All spam should be banned (0)
Spam is ok, but thread Jacking should never be tolerated (0)
Spam should be allowed in all instances, [NoSpam] tag should be used (1)
Moderators should use own judgement, and split thread-jacking into its own topic (5)
Other option, see post. (0)
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Re: [Open Tribunal] Spam

Postby Teanos » Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:03 pm

Welcomed - I don't honestly think you can define this.

Not Welcomed - same thing.

I can start a thread with every intention of it being a serious discussion, and all it takes is one person to post one simple phrase and that can de-rail a thread. Sometimes its ok, sometimes its not. I think the key here is going to be defining when enough is enough.

How to moderate it?

Kaz just solved that. If you want your thread to stay thread-jack free, and spam free, label it as such. If people are not able to honor that, it makes moderating it much easier. If you don't care, then let the thread take on whatever form the posters create, if it gets to the point where as a thread owner, or perhaps just a poster who is trying to make a point - you can politely ask that a break-off thread is created for your discussion, or the tread-jacking.

Just my thoughts.
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Re: [Open Tribunal] Spam

Postby Vox Populi » Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:59 pm

When is it welcome, when is it not welcome.


Labeling the threads might be the best way to go. Most of us tend to post some nonsense at times (some more than others) and like Teanos said all it takes is one phrase or comment and a thread gets jacked. One subject that comes to mind is Venus and his third boob, i've seen the mention of that jack thread after thread. To me one thread is enough rather than carrying the same subject to thread after thread.

As far as moderating i like the idea of labeling threads. (Makes is easier)

Maybe a few basic rules on it other than just 'no spam' to define more how we will moderate it? Or maybe designate threads people can just spam away in?



How should it be moderated?

Consistently
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Re: [Open Tribunal] Spam

Postby Kaz » Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:37 pm

Consistant moderation is key with everything.

But I'm not sure making the assumption that any thread can be spammed to death unless it has a [NoSpam] flag is an ideal situation.

A forum full of [NoSpam] threads doesn't give a great first impression.

I think what's more an issue is thread jacking rather than 'spam' per say.

I think that there are certain types of thread that we should agree are safe.

Offical threads, stickies, serious threads, debates, roleplay, poetry etc etc.

The odd off topic post is one thing, but I think an entire page off topic should really be in a thread in itself.

[edit]
Creative Corner and Technical Corner have no place for spam really, and to be honest, it is no help in NPA threads either. New Players are not looking for community jokes, but info on what they were asking.

Threads with a 'purpose' should be un-jackable
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Re: [Open Tribunal] Spam

Postby owly » Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:58 pm

Is a one line joke considered to be spam?
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Re: [Open Tribunal] Spam

Postby Kaz » Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:05 pm

owly wrote:Is a one line joke considered to be spam?


I think for the purposes of this thread, no.

It's not the occassional off topic post that we want to be trying to prevent. Light hearted good natured spam and jokes helps keep the community fun. But the same light hearted jokes, over and over in multiple threads at multiple times is another matter, it stops being funny, and starts to become irritating.

Although on the other hand, if that one line joke relates to 7 previous posts of off topic spam, then yes.
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Re: [Open Tribunal] Spam

Postby Venus » Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:18 pm

ok id like to point out that its not ALWAYS me who makes them start on the third boob alien man stuff!

it was in threads three days before i ever registered!
so i sometimes hijack threads but i dont honestly usually mean to and sometimes i havent even posted in it!@

i think labeling the thread is a good idea.
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Re: [Open Tribunal] Spam

Postby Vox Populi » Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:47 pm

I was just using it as an example, i mean just off the top of my head it's something i know gets used a lot. I just said the mention of it starts it, not you.



Kaz makes a good point that the [no spam] doesn't make a good impression. (still easier to moderate though)


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Re: [Open Tribunal] Spam

Postby Archangel » Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:56 pm

Looking at a larger picture, I don't think labeling NoSpam is the way to go at all. If the community were to stay static as it is, then it's fine, but if you are expecting more people, does it really give a good impression that spam is so bad you have to label threads to be not-spammed?

I'm personally a fan of the way the Penny Arcade forums handle it for their "on topic" subforums. Most of the subforums have a thread labeled [chat]. That's a thread that is no holds barred (within forum rules), spam away, joke away, whatever. Once it hits a certain page count (100 in this case) it's closed and a new thread is started. All other threads are expected to stay on-topic.

Which brings up the question of what is on-topic. The example of a one-line joke was brought up, and whether that's spam. Does the one-line joke relate to the thread in some way, no matter how loosely? (ie, in the Creationism/Evolution thread, "Did you hear the one about the two priests..." would be somewhat on topic). Or is the joke completely and utterly unrelated (same thread "yo mamma" jokes would be completely off topic). It's a fine line, but it's important to have a distinction, I think.

Once the lines are established, it's just a matter of moderating fairly within those confines.
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Re: [Open Tribunal] Spam

Postby Nagash » Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:22 am

One could also label spam-free threads with an [*] tag or something.
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Re: [Open Tribunal] Spam

Postby Kaz » Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:39 pm

Having split the spam out of various threads, and giving the new threads names appropriate to the spam thread, I have noticed that Mav and Venus seemed to quite like the appearance of the 'Venus's Farm and MavCop 1999' thread.

Therefore I think that moderators should - if they feel that a thread has been jacked - split the posts out into a new thread.

If a thread already exists, merge the spam into the existing thread.

Hopefully this'll keep the spam original and ever changing :)
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Re: [Open Tribunal] Spam

Postby Gerien » Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:46 pm

Kaz wrote:moderators should - if they feel that a thread has been jacked - split the posts out into a new thread.
Bravo. Shows the power of moderators, allows the community to do what it wants, and still clearly defines (after the fact as necessary) what is and is not "beyond the pale" in regards to spam. Although might I argue against combining too many threads into one? Spam does have its own life, after all. :mrgreen:

[edit]spam is, and always will be, a huge part of the fun we have here, but (title on the old boards or not) threadjacking is a different story. I'm glad you distinguished between the two.[/edit]
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Re: [Open Tribunal] Spam vs Thread-Jacking

Postby Kaz » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:02 pm

Appologies as Venus gets used as an example a lot, but people do have a tendancy - myself included - to take a thread off course by baiting her.

When I suggested combing threads, I mean if the spam has similar topics. My reasoning being that once we have a thread full of three boobed alien spam, maybe some new jokes will turn up.
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Re: [Open Tribunal] Well Crafted Spam vs Thread-Jacking

Postby Nagash » Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:09 am

Baiting V is fun, just as spam is. :)

But as both spam as well as threadjacking may (and probably do, most of the times) distract from the topic at hand, leaving it up to the mods when a thread has derailed so much that it requires to be split seems a good idea.

Splitting all spam would be dogmatic and useless, and boards without spam as humourless boards, in my humble spammer's opinion. :)
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Re: [Open Tribunal] Well Crafted Spam vs Thread-Jacking

Postby Teanos » Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:33 am

I think the solution is for the posters to use their best judgement when posting, and more importantly to let the Mods moderate to the best of their judgement and if anyone has an issue with that. Well, this is the forum for that.
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Re: [Open Tribunal] Well Crafted Spam vs Thread-Jacking

Postby Nagash » Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:59 am

Teanos wrote:I think the solution is for the posters to use their best judgement when posting, and more importantly to let the Mods moderate to the best of their judgement and if anyone has an issue with that. Well, this is the forum for that.



Quite right. Posters get carried away, mods can set them straight again. I can know, as I have derailed a few threads over the years. ;)


Sooo.... is that a ruling? :)
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Re: [Open Tribunal] Well Crafted Spam vs Thread-Jacking

Postby Kaz » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:01 pm

Nagash wrote:Sooo.... is that a ruling? :)


Probably, but lets follow the idea just to be sure.

Staff members should be able to vote, normal register members should not.

If this is not the case please let me know asap.
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Re: [Under Judgement] Well Crafted Spam vs Thread-Jacking

Postby Gerien » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:07 pm

I see one vote so far and I am not given the option to do so.
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Re: [Under Judgement] Well Crafted Spam vs Thread-Jacking

Postby Hector » Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:55 pm

My vote will most likely be for the following option:

Spam should be allowed in all instances, [NoSpam] tag should be used.

But if the option:

Moderators should use own judgement, and split thread-jacking into its own topic .

Was selected I would moderate accordingly, but I would only split threads in the most extreme circumstances.
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Re: [Under Judgement] Well Crafted Spam vs Thread-Jacking

Postby Socrates » Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:14 am

I have voted for: Moderators should use own judgement, and split thread-jacking into its own topic.
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