(7:41:21 PM) Archangel: So now I can start wrapping my brain around massacre-guilds again.
I'm cool with how the game would work, and the scoring, what I'm wondering (and trying to plot out) is how an actual war would go. From declaration to first hit to retalation, etc
(7:42:00 PM) Kaz: well.... that would depend on how many of the target were out of npp.
(7:42:15 PM) Kaz: but you'd declare, kill what's there and fort up waiting for retal
(7:42:33 PM) Kaz: the period where you are forted is where your points accumilate
(7:43:15 PM) Kaz: they would then hit back, but maybe you are online and manage to get a kill in with a big kingdom. They claim a decent chunk of turns and are back in the game
(7:43:59 PM) Kaz: you back and forth killing over and over, generating points, until the war ends and the stats get saved
(7:45:27 PM) Kaz: numeric disadvantage could be policed by other guilds taking out the 'gangbanger'. The defending guild would miss out on kills, but might be able to stay alive longer for the points
(7:45:46 PM) Archangel: And the question is, would it really happen that way, or would the initial strike be so devestating, and subsequent reforting be so effective, that retaliation was impossible?
(7:47:39 PM) Kaz: The biggest kingdom in the last game of massacre was "Endbringer (50002)1,508,317,554" it was killed
(7:47:59 PM) Kaz: doesnt matter how big you are, you're weak somewhere
(7:48:13 PM) Kaz: big nasty war hungry droben, dies to sorc
(7:48:18 PM) Kaz: or to scum
(7:49:06 PM) Kaz: your retal is from restarted dead realms that have picked an ideal save for the kingdoms out of npp, and still have at least 3500 turns to burn
(7:49:58 PM) Archangel: I think the dynamic of it being a guild is what will change things. A truly bloodthirsty guild could take and hold the top with impunity, I think
(7:50:13 PM) Archangel: And, I don't think it would take them long to do it.
(7:50:46 PM) Kaz: they would have to be online all the time killing realms that have a significant turn cost to attack in order to get the turn bounties to keep going
(7:51:38 PM) Kaz: with war declarations (rather than guild) you have to finish the kingdom (at whatever turn cost) before you can move on
(7:52:37 PM) Kaz: more active guilds will do well on points.... however, the less active will prolly do better on kills, coming out of npp when its right
(7:53:02 PM) Kaz: get 4 kills for 1 kingdom, thats a good average kill score
(7:53:08 PM) Kaz: you oly die once
(7:53:39 PM) Archangel: Yea, but if a guild were to get a solid lead, they could just sit on their turns until the 48 hours passed, then immediately pick the next highest guild.
At the low ranks, it would be dog eat dog, but if a guild -did- get a head start, I just see a snowball
I could be completely wrong though, as I never actually played massacre
(7:54:49 PM) Kaz: massacre tends to be spend all your turns, come back the next day to a dead kingdom
(7:55:16 PM) Kaz: death is critical in order to get more turns
(7:55:42 PM) Archangel: Sure, especially when you're the only kingdom (or a quad), but a guild? You could distribute your resources a bit more carefully
(7:55:43 PM) Kaz: bounty is good, but unless the person is online, or stopped without spending all their turns, you might not get many from it
(7:56:14 PM) Archangel: On a related note though, I'm not sure that a massacre game would ever actually -start- in a guild environment
(7:56:25 PM) Archangel: Every guild would sit 1 turn out of NPP waiting to get the first strike
(7:56:32 PM) Archangel: Does NPP eventually wear off on it's own?
(7:56:42 PM) Kaz: 1 turns out of NPP is a stupid mistake
(7:56:52 PM) Archangel: Sorry, 1 turn away from leaving NPP
(7:56:54 PM) Kaz: that means when i kill your first instance kingdom
(7:57:00 PM) Kaz: ok
(7:57:08 PM) Kaz: that kingdom is not generating points
(7:57:29 PM) Kaz: your overall age points will need you to leave protection
(7:57:53 PM) Archangel: But would it matter? Start of the "age", everyone is building and getting their guilds together, why would you leave NPP without a target your guild could jump on?
(7:58:55 PM) Kaz: say there are 10 attackable NPC kingdoms. You can use them to build up strong defensable kingdoms that will generate a lot of points. We are talking something like 100 points every 20 mins for the king
(7:59:52 PM) Kaz: death while not at war, would not mean so much
(8:00:05 PM) Kaz: becasue it would be the standard behaviour for a massacre style game
(8:00:12 PM) Archangel: Sure, but the guild that jumps those NPCs put themelves out there for attack. They've given up the first strike in hopes of being strong enough to survive the intiial onslaught from another guild (which is extremely unlikely)
(8:00:44 PM) Kaz: but they then have a guilds worth of 4500 turn kingdoms to retaliate with, and the attackers have spent their turns
(8:00:46 PM) Archangel: They'd get an early start on points, but they'd drop in rank almost immediately as soon as GuildB saw GuildA was out of NPP
(8:01:05 PM) Kaz: and are in the same place you were
(8:01:25 PM) Kaz: first strike will probably kill everyone in a guild... as will the retal
(8:01:46 PM) Kaz: its a lot of turns
(8:01:49 PM) Archangel: That's under the assumption that someone would actually make that first strike on NPCs to come out of NPP, though. I'm still not convinced they would
(8:02:03 PM) Kaz: 1000 npp turns of dedicated temples.... kills a whole guild between 3 or 4 of you
(8:02:07 PM) Kaz: no matter their size
(8:02:37 PM) Kaz: if you dont come out of npp, then you have no game to play
(8:03:27 PM) Kaz: i'd personally play for the ratio between kills and deaths
(8:03:47 PM) Kaz: if i have 10 attackable NPCs and i can kill 4 of them, then thats 4 kills over 1 death
(8:04:39 PM) Kaz: i come back the next day and do the same...each time i am getting points. Doesnt even matter if i attack a guilded kingdom out of war, because that is the only way to build the points for your own guild
(8:07:01 PM) Archangel: Before any of my comments get taken too negatively, let me state that I do think it's a great idea, and I'd love to see it and play it. I just think that the dynamic is going to be -so different- from massacre-solo, that it'll be cool to see how it plays otu
(8:07:30 PM) Kaz: the dynamic will define itself
(8:07:36 PM) Archangel: And, I think the people who've played the game, but never played massacre, will actually have an advantage. =P
(8:07:38 PM) Kaz: massacre didnt turn out how i expected it
(8:07:53 PM) Kaz: i expected people to make the turns last all age
(8:07:56 PM) Kaz: but they didnt
(8:08:08 PM) Kaz: they unloaded turns at each other online
(8:08:16 PM) Archangel: I'm just trying to look at this from the angle of "how -could- it play out, and would people enjoy it?".
(8:08:50 PM) Archangel: And I don't mean enjoy it based on the gameplay mechanic, I have full faith in those, but enjoy it based on what the people will turn the game into
(8:09:06 PM) Archangel: And though I can speculate all day long, I think the only surefire way to know is to try it